Cookies, pies, brownies, and food dishes made with LOTS of butter!
Hey there Beautiful,
I don’t know about you but the holidays are always a hard time for me to keep up my healthy eating habits.
There is just WAY TOO MUCH delicious, yummy, homemade food around and I can only say NO, so many times.
I know I’ve gotten better over the years since in my 20’s I was such a people pleaser that I didn’t want to hurt anyone’s feelings about missing a holiday meal.
Since my husband and I married young we had two Thanksgiving dinners to attend as well as the possibility of two Christmas Eve dinners and two Christmas Day breakfasts or lunches. Now that I’m older and not living close to so many relatives, it’s easier to say NO. But one look at a homemade roll and FORGET IT!
So I thought to talk to someone who might have some ideas on how to make better food choices during the holidays.
And that someone is Renata Cambria.
You will learn in this episode:
- Tips when going out to dinner at a restaurant.
- How to take back control when eating at a relative’s house. (You know the pressure relatives can make you feel about NOT eating one of their homemade desserts!)
- Ideas for making healthier side dishes for your holiday dinner table.
- The signs and symptoms of aches and pains that could be linked to what you eat.
- Why your old approach to how you eat won’t help you during menopause.
- Why listening to your body could be the most important thing you can do for your health.
So who is Renata Cambria?
Renata Cambria is the founder of Create Health Coaching.
She is a Registered Nurse with 30 years experience and a certified health coach.
Renata believes that many health issues can be significantly improved or even reversed if addressed holistically with diet and lifestyle modifications.
Always seek the advice of your physician or other qualified health provider with any questions you may have regarding a medical condition.
Never disregard professional medical advice or delay in seeking it because of something you have heard on this podcast. This general information is not intended to diagnose any medical condition or to replace your healthcare professional.
And if you want to know more about Renata, all the ways you can contact her are below.
I’ll talk to you later, Beautiful!
Links mentioned in this episode and to contact Renata:
Alice Agnello: Hey, Renata. Thanks so much for being a part of the podcast today. I really appreciate it.
Renata Cambria: Hi, Alice. It's my pleasure to be here.
Alice Agnello: So tell my audience a little bit about who you are and what you do.
Renata Cambria: Well, I'm a registered nurse. I've been doing this for the last 30 years, and I am also a certified health coach, and I believe that a lot of chronic illnesses and health problems that we have could be solved with diet and lifestyle modification without using drugs. So a big part of my practice is working with people on nutrition.
Alice Agnello: I can completely agree and understand that because my husband suffered through sarcoid and has flare-ups every once in a while, and it was only until we changed his diet that we really noticed a significant difference in his health and being able to breathe a lot better. So yeah, I always go to food first to see what's going on.
Renata Cambria: Exactly.
Alice Agnello: Unless it's a really bad headache. Sorry, I'm going to go right to the Advil or something like that. So I wanted to have Renata on the podcast because the holidays of course are coming up, and I wanted to have a little bit direction. I think we all struggle with the holidays. I know one piece of advice I got once was, "Never start changing your diet significantly during the holidays, because it might be too much for you to handle." What is your opinion kind of on that, Renata?
Renata Cambria: Well, it's never a bad time to change the diet, in my opinion. There's really no bad time to start eating healthy, but yes, holidays do offer some challenges. So we could talk a little bit how to navigate through those challenges.
Alice Agnello: Yes.
Renata Cambria: And if you're already eating healthy, then kudos to you, and we could talk about possible problems that may arise. And if you haven't, then we could just talk about how to make healthy choices.
Alice Agnello: Yeah. So my biggest thing is throughout the whole entire holiday season, you're visiting, you might be possibly going out more, you might be going to a restaurant. So let's start with going out with a restaurant and you are going to meet a group of people there. So how can I prepare myself for that, to know that I want to make better choices when I go there?
Renata Cambria: Well, one of the things that I suggest is looking for a venue, if possible at all, that is farm to table. So that's already ahead of the game and you already know that you will be getting better food choices. If it's not possible, any restaurants you'd go to, I suggest looking at the menu first and kind of trying to figure out if there is any healthy choices at all. If every single thing on the menu is deep-fried, and I think you and I spoke about it earlier, then maybe you could talk your friends into going into a different restaurant.
Alice Agnello: No, exactly. Have a little control over that. Maybe you're going to be the one who organizes it so that then you can pick where everyone is going to end up.
Renata Cambria: Exactly. So usually, I'd glance through the menu and I'd kind of figure out, if I have any dietary restrictions, "What is the least harm I could get away with?" And almost every restaurant offers some kind of a salad for the appetizer. And then you could pick, even when you're already in the restaurant, you could always ask the waiter for an easy swap. Maybe instead of carbs, they'll give you extra veggies. They're usually very happy to do that. Or if the veg is not available, they could give you an extra salad, and maybe you could omit heavy, laden potatoes or corn or carbs.
So if you stay heavy on the vegetable side, then you probably will get away with the least damage you could. And then of course, when it comes to dessert, everybody wants dessert, so this is a tricky one. Again, right now I noticed many restaurants offer healthier choices. A lot of people are gluten sensitive, so I find that almost all restaurants now offering gluten-free choices, including some gluten-free desserts. So if I were to pick, I would probably go with that option as the least harmful one.
Alice Agnello: And I think sometimes women go into the holidays thinking one way, like, "Oh, forget it. I'm just going to get my hands up because I just can't control anything," or what's coming in the house or what's being provided at work. And I feel like if you recognize that you are thinking that way, that there are ways to maybe change your mindset so that then the holidays don't completely throw you off track of your eating better.
Renata Cambria: I agree, Alice. I agree. Mindset is really what is going to determine whether you're successful going through the holiday season. And again, planning is everything. If you think a little bit ahead of time and come up with this strategy as how to navigate these issues, then ... I'm not saying you're not going to gain a couple of pounds through the season, but then you could easily get rid of them. The idea is not to really go into overdrive.
Alice Agnello: Yeah. Because then it's even harder to climb back out of that-
Renata Cambria: Exactly.
Alice Agnello: ... kind of mindset again.
Renata Cambria: Exactly. And then you also get into those bad habits where you kind of want to continue doing that even when the holidays are over.
Alice Agnello: I know. My husband doesn't understand that. For me, it's helpful just not to have those things in the house.
Renata Cambria: Exactly.
Alice Agnello: I would rather go to an ice cream shop and get and come back, rather than get a whole entire gallon and have it in the house. And so there's a little bit of a battle between the two of us. If it's not in the house, then I'm fine. What I think is hilarious this year is that because of coronavirus, that the Halloween candy is now even further pushed into September than it ever was, I feel like, before, and we're not even into October and yet, it's everywhere. And I'm like, "No, that's not coming in the house at all this early in the season. At all."
Renata Cambria: This is a really good strategy. Yes. Only keep in the house what you don't feel guilty about eating.
Alice Agnello: Exactly. Exactly. And so if you're going to be joining up with family, I know I've got only one house to go to this year, but I know some families have two houses to go to for different holiday seasons. What can you do to kind of get yourself in the right mindset, or what can you do to just be successful when you really have no control over what's going to be served there?
Renata Cambria: Well, if you go into someone else's house, or it could be your in-laws, or it could be your friends, I would think through what is it that is an absolute no-no for me? And I would call ahead and tell them about my restrictions, not with the idea that they're gonna accommodate it, but then just apologize and bring your own dish. And that way, they could serve whatever they wish, but they already know ahead of time, they're not going to feel that you're imposing, like, "How dare you to bring your own dish to my party?"
But just blame it on allergies, everybody understands allergies, and you could bring your own big veggies dish, or if you don't have an ability to bring your own, again, most people would probably serve some kind of vegetables as an appetizer, and if you load up on veggies but omit the dressing, you probably would be better off. And then when it comes to starchy foods, then you will have less room and less desire to have them.
And when you do have a lot of desserts, usually most people serve more than one pie, more than one kind of cookies. I would really be very careful what I choose. I may want it all, but let's pick one favorite and stick to one slice or one cookie, let's not just polish away a dessert table.
Alice Agnello: Because I think that's the problem.
Renata Cambria: And that way, you don't feel gross.
Alice Agnello: Because that's always the problem, there's so many good things that you want to taste, but I always feel like it's an aftereffect like, "I've done it all," and then I go home and all I have is regrets like, "Oh, I shouldn't have eaten all of that." So to go back to what you were saying, if I have a plan, I should have said, "Okay, I'm definitely going to enjoy this evening, but I am only going to eat one piece of pie and not four."
Renata Cambria: Right. Right. The other easy ways to cut down on ick factor, I guess, it's maybe you could skip the sweet alcoholic beverages. So if they're serving punch, for example, maybe that's not what you want, but maybe you could stick with wine and dilute it with water so you're having a wine spritzer. And that one glass of wine could kind of last you a while instead of downing five. Again, maybe you could skip soda and just stick to water, so that way you'd minimize your overall sugar intake so you could enjoy your pie without all the additional sugar that comes with other things on the table.
Alice Agnello: It's really just thinking about it and making better choices, as you just gave the example of like, "I'm going to drink water the whole entire time I'm there, but I'm definitely going to enjoy myself and my mother's famous apple pie," because she only makes it every once in a while when I come over.
Renata Cambria: Exactly. That's precisely it.
Alice Agnello: No, that makes sense. And then, so also to talk about dietary habits and using what you're eating to eliminate symptoms that you might be having, I know that's a specialty of yours. So what are some of the symptoms that are not maybe recognizable or noticeable right away that could have something to do with what you're eating?
Renata Cambria: It's so many. Almost everything, honestly. Unless you were in a car accident, that has nothing to do what you were eating. But pretty much everything else, in all reality. So of course, things like high cholesterol, diabetes, high blood pressure, that's pretty much a given. Sometimes you don't recognize it because it's more of a hidden process before it becomes very obvious. It's a process that takes years. They call it metabolic syndrome where you have sugar quietly creeping up, but may not be in diabetic range yet, so the doctors are not very concerned about it.
You also have thick midline, and that's one of those factors, and your cholesterol is high. So the metabolic syndrome is certainly dependent on what you're eating. But then things like joint pains, things like eczema and any kind of skin problems, certainly hormonal issues like thyroid or female hormonal imbalances like PCOS is very common right now. Definitely any kind of digestive symptoms, bloating after meals, difficulty with bowel moments one way or another, that all have to do a lot with what you're eating.
So when I deal with clients, I pretty much always address nutrition. It doesn't matter what the original concern is because it's foundational. And almost all of the diseases lead to, or rather, stem from chronic low-grade inflammation, so the poor digestion and poor nutrition leads to this chronic inflammation that may not necessarily come up in blood tests, so the doctor sends you home with, "Everything is fine." Or in case of women, they always send you home with a prescription for antidepressants like, "It's all in your head."
Alice Agnello: Yes. That's what they always say.
Renata Cambria: Yeah. Yeah. It actually hurts me when I hear this from women.
Alice Agnello: Yeah. Because it's just the catch-all. It's just easier for them to diagnose it like that because they just don't ... "Eh, I don't know what it is, so go figure it out yourself."
Renata Cambria: And of course the weight gain. With middle-age comes female changes, female hormonal changes, and then the weight suddenly starts piling up and people pretty much just shrug and say, "Well, it's menopause, so what do you want?" But it's not quite like that because you could change it if you change what you're eating, it's just that your old approach doesn't really work anymore and you do need to adjust to those changes in your midlife, and we start with nutrition. Absolutely.
Alice Agnello: I know. I just went and saw my doctor for my annual visit and one of the first things, he's like, "Oh, so your weight's gone up a little bit, maybe the corona five or ten." And I looked at him, and I always joke because he always says stuff and I want to punch him in the face because he always blames everything on getting older, and I know that that is the cause of certain things happening, as you are. "Yeah, my body's not 20 anymore, It's 47. So I get it." But when he said that, it was just interesting to me because I think I have gained a little weight over the course of a whole entire year and it's annoyed me, so I am trying different things again.
Because I think I eat pretty healthy relatively, but I know I think I snack too much. I know that about myself, and so I'm trying to really watch and pay attention to, "Am I really hungry, or is it because I'm bored and I just want to go do something in the kitchen since I work from home?" But I do notice, my mother has said that because she's in her 70s, she's noticed that a lot of women, all the weight of course is around their midsection.
Renata Cambria: Right.
Alice Agnello: And so she's been telling me, she's like, "Work on that part. That's the part where it always sticks the worst."
Renata Cambria: You can't work on one part.
Alice Agnello: No, exactly.
Renata Cambria: It doesn't work that way. There's no fat loss in one part, otherwise we would all be walking around with a six-pack.
Alice Agnello: Right.
Renata Cambria: But it doesn't happen. And it's the estrogen. It's what happens when you have this disbalance between estrogen and progesterone. But in terms of snacking, which you have mentioned, one of the things that often happens is that people don't recognize that they are thirsty, so they often feel hunger without recognizing they just need a big glass of water.
Alice Agnello: Right.
Renata Cambria: So that's one of the techniques that I always tell clients regardless, whether it's holidays or not holidays, they're seeking to lose weight, to keep adequate water intake, and that alone will do wonders for weight management.
Alice Agnello: The other thing I've been trying to do is just to get up and move, meaning instead of focusing on the kitchen, I'll get up and go outside and then walk around just to, again, change it up a little bit, rather than that habit of feeling like I need to go and eat something. Yeah, my water bottle is with me all the time. I always joke with my husband when we go out and I don't have it, like, "My blankie." My Linus blankie's not with me if it's there.
And when I did change up my diet, I did notice that the aches and pains, as we were mentioning earlier, definitely the aches went dramatically down from that. And I know when I overeat too many things, usually it's too much bread and sugar, those two combinations together, and I've definitely noticed a difference with also hormonal symptoms.
Renata Cambria: Right.
Alice Agnello: And when I'm ovulating or when I'm on my period, those two things will just make everything so much more worse. So I really pay attention to when that is, and sugar is ... I just don't like doing it. I noticed also it gives me, I think, a runny and stuffy nose sometimes too.
Renata Cambria: Right.
Alice Agnello: And so it's all controllable, but sometimes my husband makes sourdough bread and that's really hard to say no to.
Renata Cambria: Yeah, I understand. I understand. Well, you know what? He could be creative and use alternative flours, I guess. That's an option.
Alice Agnello: And he's a chef, so he should be willing to do those things for me to get better.
Renata Cambria: Oh, well, you're a lucky woman. You're definitely lucky. But it's not that hard, it just takes a little bit getting used to, but right now just so much stuff is available in the market. Really, a lot of people became sensitive to gluten, so you have all these kinds of alternative flours and you could get absolutely fantastic stuff. In my household is my younger daughter, who is an amazing baker, so I get amazing brownies, I get really delicious desserts. None of them have any grains, so it's all possible.
Alice Agnello: And so what do you think women in midlife kind of struggle with most when it comes to just eating healthier and moving more?
Renata Cambria: A lot of times, it's simply paying attention. Because again, there is a mindset. It starts with mindset, and the doctors contribute to it. That same attitude that your doctor portrayed to you is, "You're getting older, it's inevitable." "Oh, it's menopause, what do you want?" Right now where I see people in their mid-30s, they're told, "Well, you know what? You're perimenopausal, so what could you possibly want?" It's all nonsense, frankly.
So yes, hormones eventually changing, but to start with, if you're in your thirties and you're perimenopausal, you do have a problem. That shouldn't be happening, so you really need to be changing your nutrition right away because you shouldn't be getting perimenopause in your 30s. You should be still having babies. And so just being mindful of the fact that it's possible and it doesn't have to be hard.
The other mindset is, "Oh my God, it's so hard. I could never. How could I possibly not eat dairy? How could I possibly not eat bread?" Or there's the other extreme, you know, "I need to go to keto because everybody's doing keto and keto's so amazing." Well, it's amazing for some people sometimes. That's how I look at it. And as a short-term strategy, maybe. As a long-term strategy, not so much.
So I don't know if you need to jump on the latest fashion. I think what you really need to do is listen to your body, identify what foods are inflammatory for you. There is a lot of toxic foods out there, I'll be honest with you. Like processed foods, most of them just reading the labels alone will really push you in the right direction, because if you realize how many chemicals are in each package, you will probably lose your appetite for those things.
So just be an educated consumer. That is probably the single most effective strategy. Read the labels, omit processed foods, listen to your body. Your body will tell you everything you need to know. If you eat something and feel gross, if you eat something and have gas and bloating, it's probably not for you.
Alice Agnello: And I think, as to what you said, if you feel like you're not being heard at your doctor, then go get another doctor.
Renata Cambria: Absolutely.
Alice Agnello: Go get another opinion.
Renata Cambria: Yes.
Alice Agnello: There is nothing wrong with doing that. You're not going to insult that other doctor or anything like that. Now, if it was changing your hairstylist to a different person at your same hair salon, then you might have problems. But sometimes I do feel like that certain doctors when I go in there, they are. They're intimidating because supposedly they have all the answers, and it's like, "I know my body. I know how sensitive it is. I know that this isn't right, and what should we do about it?"
Renata Cambria: But again, you have to also understand the limitations of the doctors. While they are wonderful at saving lives, they will not give you solid advice on nutrition. They do not get training on nutrition in medical school. So unless you go to a functional practitioner who's going to spend hours with you and figure out what may be driving new symptoms, traditional doctors just simply don't have the time or ability to really go deep.
So there is practitioners like myself, the alternative kinds of practitioners that you could keep your doctor because somebody has to order your labs and somebody has to prescribe your medications if you are on medications, but hopefully when you start changing your lifestyle, when you start changing your diet, you could gradually come off medications, and then you don't need to see any doctor except for your once a year physical. That's the best kind of doctor.
Alice Agnello: Yeah, exactly. Yeah, he jokes with me. He'll always say, "Why are you here?" And I'm like, "Because this is the one thing I get to do every year that's already paid for with my health care, and also just to make sure that you see me and we have some sort of relationship so that when I do come in here," because I am relatively healthy, "when I do come in here and there's a problem, I know he's going to take it seriously." Not that he wouldn't, but he'll know that something's going on with me.
So what other healthy eating tips could you give my audience for today?
Renata Cambria: Well, we've covered going to the restaurant, we've covered going to someone else's house. Why don't we talk briefly about having company over at your own house?
Alice Agnello: Perfect.
Renata Cambria: So now you're in charge of the menu. But of course, you know who your people are and you know what they like, and you know this one likes this and this one likes that. The first thing I want to say, which has nothing to do with nutrition, don't go crazy. You cannot please them all.
Alice Agnello: Yes. So true.
Renata Cambria: Because then you start gaining weight just from sheer stress.
Alice Agnello: Right.
Renata Cambria: You may not eat anything but water and alcohol, but you still are-
Alice Agnello: Right. Or you're just kicking back the alcohol because of all the stress.
Renata Cambria: Yeah. You know what? If you never could please your mother-in-law, don't try to impress her now. She's still going to end up trashing you, it doesn't matter how many dishes you put on the table.
Alice Agnello: Right. Right. Just expect it to happen, and then when it does-
Renata Cambria: Yes. Yes.
Alice Agnello: ... you're like, "Okay. Yeah, that's her."
Renata Cambria: Yeah. I spent too many Christmases slaving all day at the kitchen just to realize it's not particularly appreciated, so I kind of stopped doing that.
Alice Agnello: Right. Right. Exactly.
Renata Cambria: So that's the first thing. The first thing is really to relax and make and plan a menu that makes most sense for you. Again, you could offer your audience that if there's something they really like, they could bring it with them and that's fine. If they don't want to eat your gluten-free pie, they certainly could bring their own from the bakery or from their own recipe and that's perfectly fine. Again, I suggest create appetizers on the lighter side, heavy on veggies, light on cheese and mayo.
Again, you don't have to serve a whole dessert table, you could stick to serving one or two desserts and that's okay. Usually people bring stuff with them anyway and you're going to end up with more than one, so that's fine. Another thing I suggest is maybe limiting non-starchy sides, making easy swaps. For example, instead of green beans casserole, you could do green beans almondine, which is much lighter, but just as delicious. Or let's say roasted potatoes instead of scalloped potatoes. A little bit easier on the fat, a little bit easier on the cheese.
Another great option for the sides in my mind is roasted root vegetables. They're really great, delicious, sweet, and healthier than if you were serving just rice, for example. So those are the easiest swaps you can do. And one of the tricks that I've learned, I'm a big fan of potatoes, but I don't usually eat them a lot. If you cook potatoes ahead of time, and then you cool them, and then you reheat them again, they lose significant amount of sugar, and now they have what's called resistant starch. So they become more of a complex carbohydrate that doesn't spike your sugar immediately and actually becomes beneficial. It feeds your beneficial gut bacteria.
Alice Agnello: It's so funny you bring that up because I think I read that years ago, and it wasn't until you saying that right now and I was like, "Oh yeah, that's right." I had forgotten about that. My husband and I occasionally will eat baked potatoes for breakfast, but I could definitely cook them the night before or on a Sunday, and then I have them for the week, but then refrigerate them.
Renata Cambria: Right. Exactly. And just reheat them.
Alice Agnello: Yeah.
Renata Cambria: And actually, as many times as you heat them, cool them, heat them, cool them, the more resistant starch goes up.
Alice Agnello: Interesting. Okay.
Renata Cambria: So that's one of the ways of reducing, again, the sugar impact. And again, in terms of alcohol, we'll discuss it. Sometimes you need that extra to just go through that whole evening with the family, but-
Alice Agnello: It's okay. One evening.
Renata Cambria: But again, maybe if you use wine spritzers instead of a glass of wine every time you want to strangle someone-
Alice Agnello: Yes.
Renata Cambria: ... then the impact's going to be a little bit lighter.
Alice Agnello: Plus, hopefully you won't be as drunk. Kind of just slow you down a little bit, you won't say anything that you really shouldn't say. But all of your suggestions, they're just tiny tweaks. Just tiny-
Renata Cambria: Precisely.
Alice Agnello: ... changes. And yes, maybe some people won't be completely happy with it, but this is your house, this is your party, you get to choose what you serve.
Renata Cambria: Absolutely. But I also think that just the same way as you were to go ahead of time if you were going to their house, if you decide to go healthy this year but you know who the stubborn ones are, you could call them ahead of time. And again, blame your newly found allergy and say, "Listen, this year I'm having some health restrict. My doctor told me." "Well, if your doctor told you, of course." So you could say, "Listen, I can't eat that, but if you want to bring it with you, then by all means." And so this way everybody is happy to the extent that they're capable of.
Alice Agnello: Right. Exactly. No, those are all really good suggestions. Is there anything else that I didn't cover that you might want to tell my audience?
Renata Cambria: Again, holidays are a stressful time for most people, and that wasn't the idea. The idea is to be with friends and family. I don't know how many gatherings going to happen this year because of the coronavirus. Unfortunately, a lot of families are not getting together, or they're not getting with their older members of their family for the fear for their health. And that's kind of sad. So just remember the holidays and the gatherings are about being with the people you love, not so much about eating a lot.
So if you keep the perspective and really concentrate on the love and care between the people in your home or when you are in their home, then the food issue is not as important, and you just try to make small, healthy choices. And if all fails and you do end up eating what you shouldn't, then just don't feel guilty. Then just enjoy it.
Alice Agnello: Exactly. Enjoy it and say, "That was good." I noticed that I've gotten pickier with what I will eat. If I know something is not that great of bread, I would not eat it where I know I could get a better bread from someplace else.
Renata Cambria: Well, your husband is a chef. I don't know how anybody would invite you over.
Alice Agnello: Yeah. Very true. Thank you so much, Renata, for being on the show today. I so appreciate it. How is the best way for my audience to get ahold of you?
Renata Cambria: Well, they can contact me through my website. It's www.CreateHealthCoaching.com. They could also email me at info@CreateHealthCoaching.com.
Alice Agnello: Perfect. So here are my three questions that I ask everyone at the end of the interview. Tell me something that not a lot of people know about you.
Renata Cambria: Well, when I was in my youth, I finished eight years of musical school, and before I became a nurse, I briefly entertained the idea being in the music industry, but that quickly failed and I found another calling. So it all worked out really well.
Alice Agnello: What was your instrument?
Renata Cambria: I played guitar, which I cannot play at right now.
Alice Agnello: Name three things that you can't live without, other than your family and friends.
Renata Cambria: I can't live without sleep. That's one of the things. And frankly, even when I was in my 20s when everybody was going to a discotheque at midnight, I was just like, "I'd rather sleep." So I really like to sleep. So that's one. I really like being close to the water, and I can't frankly imagine being someplace that doesn't have a body of water. It doesn't matter which body, it could be a lake, it could be a river, and right now I'm right next to the ocean. So water is really calming me down and I love being close to it.
And the third one is probably quiet. I live in New York City, it is very noisy all the time. So quiet is precious, and any time I get away, and I try to get away as often as I can, I just really enjoy it. And the older I get, I noticed the more I get tired of noise and the more I need that calmness that come from silence.
Alice Agnello: Love it. And if you could choose one song to play every time you entered a room for the rest of your life, what would it be?
Renata Cambria: It would be Days Like This by Van Morrison.
Alice Agnello: I like that one. I like that one.
Renata Cambria: I would like every day to be like that.
Alice Agnello: I like that one. He's got some good ones.
Renata Cambria: Oh yeah.
Alice Agnello: Thank you so much, Renata, for being on the podcast today. I so appreciate it.
Renata Cambria: Alice, it was my pleasure, and I really enjoyed it.
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